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Neither here nor there?
[ 2006-12-08 11:21 ]

Vinnie asks: What's "neither here nor there?"

My comments:
First of all, you've done well to even notice a phrase like this. Neither here nor there - simple and familiar words they are, so familiar that we sometimes ignore them.

That's why people say familiarity breeds contempt - that's me at my most penetrating, eh (lol)? Seriously though, in English language learning, familiarity breeds, well, familiarity.

It's tempting to ask you to give an example, providing some context in which you found this lovely phrase because then I could smugly reply with: Well, can you guess?

But that's neither here nor there now. We cannot deal with what-ifs. We must deal with what is - and what is is that you've raised a question without giving examples.

I'll give examples instead.

This passage is from the opening chapter of The Odyssey by Homer:
"Now Neptune had gone off to the Ethiopians, who are at the World's end, and lie in two halves, the one looking West and the other East. He had gone there to accept a hecatomb of sheep and oxen, and was enjoying himself at his festival; but the other gods met in the house of Olympian Jove, and the sire of gods and men spoke first. At that moment he was thinking of Aegisthus, who had been killed by Agamemnon's son Orestes; so he said to the other gods:

"'See now, how men lay blame upon us gods for what is after all nothing but their own folly. Look at Aegisthus; he must needs make love to Agamemnon's wife unrighteously and then kill Agamemnon, though he knew it would be the death of him; for I sent Mercury to warn him not to do either of these things, inasmuch as Orestes would be sure to take his revenge when he grew up and wanted to return home. Mercury told him this in all good will but he would not listen, and now he has paid for everything in full.'

"Then Minerva said, 'Father, son of Saturn, King of kings, it served Aegisthus right, and so it would any one else who does as he did; but Aegisthus is neither here nor there; it is for Ulysses that my heart bleeds, when I think of his sufferings in that lonely sea-girt island, far away, poor man, from all his friends.'…"

Leave all those Greek gods alone for the moment. Can you guess the meaning of "neither here nor there", Vinnie?

From the Pickwick Papers by Charles Dickens, this passage:
"Ay, ay," said the little man, "very good, very good, indeed; but you should have suggested it to me. My dear sir, I'm quite certain you cannot be ignorant of the extent of confidence which must be placed in professional men. If any authority can be necessary on such a point, my dear sir, let me refer you to the well-known case in Barnwell and…"

"Never mind George Barnwell," interrupted Sam, who had remained a wondering listener during this short colloquy; "everybody knows what sort of a case his was, though it's always been my opinion, mind you, that the young woman deserved scragging a precious sight more than he did. However, that's neither here nor there. You want me to accept of half a guinea. Very well, I'm agreeable: I can't say no fairer than that, can I, sir?"

Have you figured it out, Vinnie? Or perhaps one more example will make a difference.

In the news (old news, I shall say), this passage from an Economist article titled Taxing the Internet back on March 23, 2001: "In some respects, a further ban on new Internet taxes is neither here nor there, because the real problem is the difficulty of collecting those old taxes that should already apply to e-commerce."

Well, again, Vinnie, can you guess? Or have all these examples been in vain, irrelevant, changing nothing and making no difference?

Anyways, this is one way to mastering idiomatic English without consulting a dictionary. Meet it. See it in the eye. See through it. If once doesn't do it, then do it twice, thrice. Eventually you'll be able to get acquainted with it. You'll be able to make friends with it. You'll be able to use it. You'll be able to use it well.

But remember, do it with respect. Don't allow familiarity to breed disrespect.

 

About the author:
 

Zhang Xin is Trainer at chinadaily.com.cn. He has been with China Daily since 1988, when he graduated from Beijing Foreign Studies University. Write him at: zhangxin@chinadaily.com.cn, or raise a question for potential use in a future column.

 
 
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